Discussion:
my initial thoughts
(too old to reply)
xxx
2012-02-21 05:56:53 UTC
Permalink
i typed out my initial thoughts for some friends, so i thought i'd
share with the group. once i processed it more, i liked the album a
lot more and i'll post another thread of individual album thoughts
which i'm sure comes off better than this thread might, so take that
into consideration before jumping all over this thread.


about 5 of the 13 songs are from old demos, so the album doesn't
really sound "new", which kind of sucks, in that you're hoping for
something completely fresh that you haven't heard before. also, the
old songs in a way are re-treads of songs that weren't good enough to
make the cut on the old albums in the first place...but they're good
enough now?? they've had 14 yrs of zilch but still had to go back to
the well for 5 of 13 songs? that's kind of weak, imo, especially since
eddie's been bragging that he has "10 albums worth of new material"
for the past decade.

the overall vibe of the album feels most like VH II and women and
children first upon my first few listens. but chuck klosterman of
grantland.com had a curious observation- that many of the songs sound
like they could've been on some of dave's past solo albums...and i
actually found that to be true once i listened several times. some of
them could've been on the eat em and smile, skyscraper, a little ain't
enough or DLR band albums.

the album sounded a little "off" to me and/or that something was
missing. once i realized a lot of this sounded like songs from dave's
past solo albums, it hit me what was missing...mike's harmonies. the
songs still have harmonies but it's not the signature VH sound that
mike brought to the band. i've been saying for awhile that as much as
ed's guitar and dave's frontman abilities set VH apart, so did mike's
harmonies. bands like ac/dc, aerosmith, led zep. etc...they didn't
have those kind of harmonies like VH did. it gave them a bit more pop
appeal and sing-along factor, while still rocking your socks off.

using a lot of old songs that were written when they were in their
early 20s and now playing them as they're pushing 60...feels weird.
it's hard and thrashy but it's like an old guy who marries a trophy
wife who's young enough to be his daughter- yeah, she's nice arm candy
and all...but you're old enough to be her dad and it just looks...off.

also, going from 1984 to 2012 between van roth albums (well, they had
those 2 songs in '96) is a HUGE gap. you can't have nearly 30 missing
yrs and not have all those yrs of musical transition and have it feel
right. they were about 30 when they broke up and nearly 60 now and
it's hard not to notice but it's like they're hoping you think it's
still the 1980s...but all those yrs are just...missing. you can't not
notice.

i also wonder if they considered ted templeman as producer for this
one. he's probably retired or semi-retired by now but he did do ALL
six van roth albums (and 1 van hagar album). he must know them as well
as anyone. i just wondered if it was considered...and if ted would've
taken them up on the offer, if asked. i wonder how different the album
would've sounded.

eddie sounds like he's regained his chops, which is a relief. both he
and al were surprisingly rusty on both reunion tours ('04 w/hagar and
'07 w/roth). klosterman said in his review that eddie seemed out to
prove he was still godzilla on guitar. he's right- ed's out to scorch
the earth once again.

and speaking of bass, i still haven't heard or seen what makes wolfie
any sort of musical prodigy. first off, i wonder how he really feels
about playing with a bunch of old dudes that are 40 yrs older than he
is. and what kid *really* wants to play with his old man?? most kids
his age wouldn't want to play classic rock oldies, much less play with
their old man.

you'd think he'd rather play with kids his own age and play modern
music. i always felt that if ed *had* to have his kid in the band, it
should've been as a 2nd guitarist or on keyboards during the keyboard
songs. that way they could've kept mike in the band. the way they gave
mike the heave-ho after all those yrs of being a loyal soldier was
really, really wrong, petty and vindictive.

chuck kosterman also had a comment that went something like, he has a
hard time telling if it's an album he really likes but doesn't want to
or if it's an album he really doesn't like but wants to. i kind of
realize what he means now. i do like it...but it's not totally a VH
album. it's kind of a dave album that eddie played on or something to
that effect. there are so many factors (the time gap from 1984, using
old songs, mike's harmonies missing) that it messes with your head and
being to judge it as a VH album.

i wonder if and when we'll get another album out of them or if dave
will rub the van 3 stooges clan wrong and they'll go back to sammy.
from the stuff i've seen of them together so far, it looks like
they're trying to make it work but there still seems to be awkward
moments. dave's dialed it back but can still rub nerves with the
forced jokes/laughs and perma-grin and the van halens are uber-flakes,
so it can blow up at any moment. when they were with sam it seemed
like 4 friends goofing off and having a blast onstage (outside of
maybe the '04 tour). with dave, it still seems more business than
pleasure.
IGB
2012-02-21 07:53:59 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:56:53 -0800 (PST), xxx <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:

<snip>
Post by xxx
i wonder if and when we'll get another album out of them or if dave
will rub the van 3 stooges clan wrong and they'll go back to sammy.
from the stuff i've seen of them together so far, it looks like
they're trying to make it work but there still seems to be awkward
moments. dave's dialed it back but can still rub nerves with the
forced jokes/laughs and perma-grin and the van halens are uber-flakes,
so it can blow up at any moment. when they were with sam it seemed
like 4 friends goofing off and having a blast onstage (outside of
maybe the '04 tour). with dave, it still seems more business than
pleasure.
Sammy will never be back. The Hagar reunion failed in 2004 and
promoters lost money. There is no demand for Hagar by the general
public. The only people who want Hagar back are VHLinks types who hate
Dave. Hagar is like the anti-Dave to them. They are also the ones who
became VH fans when Hagar was in the band and have no idea what a real
VH concert was like.

Hagar also crossed a line with the shit he said in his book and for
the last 8 years. There was a feud between DLR and VH, but Hagar has
taken it to the gutter.

...and they seem to be getting along great to me. I think Ed has
always wanted to be real friends with Dave and I think it's working.
He even seems to be starting to move like Dave onstage

Check out Ed in the first 25 seconds of this video. I've never seen
him move like that or seem as genuinely happy -





It's all Dave from here on in... take my word for it.
xxx
2012-02-21 08:17:56 UTC
Permalink
"Hagar also crossed a line with the shit he said in his book and for
the last 8 years. There was a feud between DLR and VH, but Hagar has
taken it to the gutter."

in roth's book, he questioned whether eddie was wolfgang's real
father. i don't think it gets lower than that. i always wondered if
eddie read the book or anyone close to him told him about that passage
in the book. i'm guessing probably not on both accounts. that would be
an unforgivable sin for eddie and we all know how he carries a grudge.

i saw this video recently, which i thought was interesting:




"...and they seem to be getting along great to me. I think Ed has
always wanted to be real friends with Dave and I think it's working.
He even seems to be starting to move like Dave onstage
Check out Ed in the first 25 seconds of this video. I've never seen
him move like that or seem as genuinely happy - "

the happiest i've probably seen eddie was in the 'live without a net'
video but i digress. i'll enjoy this while it lasts because it could
blow up at any moment. but it still feels slightly forced, at times,
and more business than pleasure. the album was surprisingly very good,
however. i can't deny them that.
CG
2012-02-21 11:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by xxx
in roth's book, he questioned whether eddie was wolfgang's real
father. i don't think it gets lower than that. i always wondered if
eddie read the book or anyone close to him told him about that passage
in the book. i'm guessing probably not on both accounts. that would be
an unforgivable sin for eddie and we all know how he carries a grudge.
As much as Ed likes to play the victim, he and Al propagated lies and
fabrications about Dave for years. (In fact, we know now that Ed lied
about not meeting Gary Cherone until after the 1996 MTV VMA's, as
Cherone has confirmed that he was hired as the band's lead singer at
least a month prior. Worse yet, at around the same time, the band had
told Mitch Malloy that *he* was the new lead singer, though he ended
up pulling out.) But that shit is in the past; if it was an issue, it
would have come up 5 years ago.
Post by xxx
the happiest i've probably seen eddie was in the 'live without a net'
video but i digress. i'll enjoy this while it lasts because it could
blow up at any moment. but it still feels slightly forced, at times,
and more business than pleasure. the album was surprisingly very good,
however. i can't deny them that.
Roth has been back in the band for 5 years now, maybe longer. As long
as Wolfgang likes Dave and keeps Eddie on the straight and narrow, I
think we can expect this to be the final version of Van Halen. My
guess is that their next album (which will probably be released
sometime in the next 5 years) will be their last; then the guys will
retire, and Wolfgang will start his own band.
IGB
2012-02-21 20:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by CG
Post by xxx
in roth's book, he questioned whether eddie was wolfgang's real
father. i don't think it gets lower than that. i always wondered if
eddie read the book or anyone close to him told him about that passage
in the book. i'm guessing probably not on both accounts. that would be
an unforgivable sin for eddie and we all know how he carries a grudge.
As much as Ed likes to play the victim, he and Al propagated lies and
fabrications about Dave for years. (In fact, we know now that Ed lied
about not meeting Gary Cherone until after the 1996 MTV VMA's, as
Cherone has confirmed that he was hired as the band's lead singer at
least a month prior. Worse yet, at around the same time, the band had
told Mitch Malloy that *he* was the new lead singer, though he ended
up pulling out.) But that shit is in the past; if it was an issue, it
would have come up 5 years ago.
Post by xxx
the happiest i've probably seen eddie was in the 'live without a net'
video but i digress. i'll enjoy this while it lasts because it could
blow up at any moment. but it still feels slightly forced, at times,
and more business than pleasure. the album was surprisingly very good,
however. i can't deny them that.
Roth has been back in the band for 5 years now, maybe longer. As long
as Wolfgang likes Dave and keeps Eddie on the straight and narrow, I
think we can expect this to be the final version of Van Halen. My
guess is that their next album (which will probably be released
sometime in the next 5 years) will be their last; then the guys will
retire, and Wolfgang will start his own band.
And Sammy is what, even 6 or 7 years older? He's at the point where's
he's going to wake up one day and be senile and all that makeup and
surgery won't be able to hide it anymore.

Is this guy even entertaining to watch? Check out the first minute or
so of this video. Looks like they pulled some slob from the audience
to sing Hagar tunes:


xxx
2012-02-22 02:02:50 UTC
Permalink
hey guys, all i can say is look at their past history with playing
musical chairs with singers. right now, i'm happy they FINALLY put out
a new album...which is a lot better than i expected. i'm happy they're
touring. roth was the best sounding member, imo, last tour. i was
pleasantly shocked.

i hope it lasts...but would i be surprised if the bros flaked out and/
or if dave's ego got the better of him? absolutely not. but for now,
i'll enjoy it while it lasts and hope they can get another album out
in 3 years *fingers crossed* (i know that's probably a pipe dream).
these fucking guys need to make up for 14 years of lost bullshit.

the band that is halen is a fragile, fickle, insecure, finger pointing
bitch. you can't overlook that. if you do, you'll feel a knife in your
back sooner rather than later.
IGB
2012-02-22 23:08:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by xxx
hey guys, all i can say is look at their past history with playing
musical chairs with singers. right now, i'm happy they FINALLY put out
a new album...which is a lot better than i expected. i'm happy they're
touring. roth was the best sounding member, imo, last tour. i was
pleasantly shocked.
i hope it lasts...but would i be surprised if the bros flaked out and/
or if dave's ego got the better of him? absolutely not. but for now,
i'll enjoy it while it lasts and hope they can get another album out
in 3 years *fingers crossed* (i know that's probably a pipe dream).
these fucking guys need to make up for 14 years of lost bullshit.
the band that is halen is a fragile, fickle, insecure, finger pointing
bitch. you can't overlook that. if you do, you'll feel a knife in your
back sooner rather than later.
Yup, that's why Dave didn't come back until Ed was out of all other
choices. I don't see this band surviving anouther breakup. Not after
an album this good. I don't see the public ever warming up to Hagar
again. His time is done. Sure, it can happen, but only if Ed and Al
want to play a lot smaller venues. I think they are quite happy Sam's
career is in the toilet right now.
xxx
2012-02-23 01:42:07 UTC
Permalink
"Yup, that's why Dave didn't come back until Ed was out of all other
choices. I don't see this band surviving anouther breakup. Not after
an album this good. I don't see the public ever warming up to Hagar
again. His time is done. Sure, it can happen, but only if Ed and Al
want to play a lot smaller venues. I think they are quite happy Sam's
career is in the toilet right now. "

ed/al definitely painted themselves into a corner, that's for sure!
and i've learned to NEVER say never when it comes to VH. this band has
found each and every way to shoot themselves in the foot. ed is
fucking delusional with all the bullshit promises he's said over the
years.

if they did get back with hagar, i think they could play arenas but
tix would have to be close to half of what they are now with roth.
IGB
2012-02-21 20:04:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by xxx
"Hagar also crossed a line with the shit he said in his book and for
the last 8 years. There was a feud between DLR and VH, but Hagar has
taken it to the gutter."
in roth's book, he questioned whether eddie was wolfgang's real
father. i don't think it gets lower than that. i always wondered if
eddie read the book or anyone close to him told him about that passage
in the book. i'm guessing probably not on both accounts. that would be
an unforgivable sin for eddie and we all know how he carries a grudge.
You have to remember most of what Dave says is tongue-in-cheek. Sammy
has no humor. Sammy is an insecure braggart. I'm sure they don't
appreciate his latest comments about their music and playing abilities
either.
Post by xxx
http://youtu.be/sg0XbvDpB8M
"...and they seem to be getting along great to me. I think Ed has
always wanted to be real friends with Dave and I think it's working.
He even seems to be starting to move like Dave onstage
Check out Ed in the first 25 seconds of this video. I've never seen
him move like that or seem as genuinely happy - "
the happiest i've probably seen eddie was in the 'live without a net'
video but i digress. i'll enjoy this while it lasts because it could
blow up at any moment. but it still feels slightly forced, at times,
and more business than pleasure. the album was surprisingly very good,
however. i can't deny them that.
The thing is I've heard the "it can blow up at any moment" for years
now. How many moments need to go by?

The bottom line is, why would they ever go back to Sam? He is not
DLR's equal and never will be. He and his fans are delusional about
the reality of his position in Van Halen.

Sure, Van Hagar was highly successful - in the 80's and 90's - but so
were a lot of other bands that are no longer popular.

Van Halen made music that's up there with Led Zeppelin.
Van Hagar made music that's up there with Nightranger.

The avg capacity of the Hagar reunion was in line with the Cherone
tour. How many celebrities and people were coming out and saying.
"Yeah, I've waited so long for Hagar to be back. This is a dream come
true"?

Plus, you think Ed would ever dump Wolfie? Don't Hagar and Mike come
as a package?

I don't see Hagar ever being back... and I've been spot on in my
predictions here for the last 15 years or so. Just my .02

Not saying you're a delusional Hagar fan, but it's also what they have
said.

The delusion of Hagar fans over the years in AMVH:

"Dave will never be back, his voice is shot"
"Ed and Sammy are good friends, Dave won't be back"
"Dave embarrassed himself with the bluegrass CD, he ruined the
reunion"
"Ok, so Dave's back, but it won't last more than 3 shows"
"People care only about Ed, DLR won't sell better than Sammy"
"It was a nostalgia tour. It won't happen again. People don't care
about DLR"
"They will never make another album, not with Dave"
"The album will suck with Dave and sell poorly"
"Ok, so they are touring again with Dave, but it could blow up at any
minute"

LOL
Loading...